Versioned Symbols - A New Level of Hell
If dynamic linking was bad, things have become even worse now that most Linux systems use ‘versioned symbols’.
Newsgroups: comp.os.plan9 From: rminn...@lanl.gov (ron minnich) Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports Organization: Plan 9 mailing list Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 14:57:50 GMT On Tue, 20 Apr 2004, boyd, rounin wrote: > debian managed to shoot themselves in the foot with some libc, > some time back. you couldn't go forward 'cos other stuff would > break and you couldn't go back 'cos more stuff would break. gets better. Symbols are now versioned (well, this really happened a few years back). So you are very tightly screwed (good word) to the library you use, and it covers a definite range forward/backward. I assume but am not sure that glibc nowadays encompaesses lots of versions of lots of functions going back for years. Which also means the version naming of the file (libc-2.3.2.so) has a lot less meaning than it used to. At some point, given the tight wiring of an executable to the particular library version, one starts to lose track of just why .so's are still thought to be a good idea (I mean, on a 1960s-era Burroughs machine with not much memory, I get it, but ... /bin/cat on my Redhat box at 20K, is not much smaller than /bin/cat on Plan 9 (22K stripped), and the Plan 9 one doesn't do symbol fixup every time it runs ...). And, as Linus mentioned, TLBs matter. Hmm. Judging by 'ps', cat on linux needs 256 of them, and cat on Plan 9 needs 6. xclock has got 900 or so, and Plan 9 clock appears to have 3*30 or so (3 clock procs when you run clock). So you do pay a bit for .so's. You don't gain an implementation-independent interface for your programs, since the .so is versioned and the symbols in it are versioned; I wonder what you DO gain? The theory always was you could swap out a shared library and swap in a bug-fixed version, which sounds nice until you try it and it fails miserably (there was a time when this worked ...) ron
From: rminn...@lanl.gov (ron minnich) Subject: Re: [9fans] acme, rio workalike available in plan 9 ports References: <20040422173022.GA28499@lst.de> Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:04:59 GMT On Fri, 23 Apr 2004, Christoph Hellwig wrote: > That beeing said I'm the last one to defend glibc's bloat, but in a > system where you can't easily rebuild all binaries for whatever > reason shared libraries and symbol versioning makes a lot of sense. No, it doesn't help much at all. Let's take program 'a', which depends on stat. In the new order of gcc, when built, 'a' will depend on stat from glib 2.0. A new stat comes along with fixes. It gets built into glibc 2.1. You install glibc 2.1. Program 'a', unless I rebuild or replace it, will be using the old stat. Of course, I might think that the shared library has fixed all binaries using stat, and I'm wrong -- or am I right? Is the V1 stat just a wrapper? who knows? And do you cover all the cases? And maybe it isn't calling stat and I don't know it. Maybe it's calling one of these: 000c888c t __GI___fxstat 000c90cc t __GI___fxstat64 000c90cc t ___fxstat64 000c888c T __fxstat 000c90cc T __fxstat64@@GLIBC_2.2 000c90cc T__fxstat64@GLIBC_2.1 000c90cc t __old__fxstat64 000c888c t _fxstat I've found programs that call all these variants, because the functions they call call different library functions. It's quite interesting to see. Which one is 'a' calling? Oh yeah, you can max out the ld.so debug options, because of course weak symbols come into this game too, and you're not really sure unless you watch this: 19595: binding file /lib/libpthread.so.0 to /lib/libc.so.6: normal symbol `getrlimit' [GLIBC_2.2] 19595: symbol=__getpagesize; lookup in file=date 19595: symbol=__getpagesize; lookup in file=/lib/libpthread.so.0 19595: symbol=__getpagesize; lookup in file=/lib/librt.so.1 19595: symbol=__getpagesize; lookup in file=/lib/libc.so.6 yup, several hundred lines of this stuff, for 'date'. Of course it's kind of interesting: Posix threads are used by 'date'. I had no idea that printing a date could be so complex. Maybe that's why it's 40k -- bigger than some OSes. The symbol versioning breaks assumptions users have about how shared libaries work -- that they provide a link to one version of a function and if you replace the library all the programs get fixed. I've seen this problem in practice, for both naive users and very non-naive sysadmins. The symbol versioning wires programs to something beyond a library version, in a way that is not obvious to most people. To fix a binary that uses a library, you have to replace the binary, not just the library, or you can not be sure anything gets fixed. That said, if you can't rebuild all the binaries, well then you're stuck, and have no idea if your new shared library is going to fix anything at all for some of those binaries. Some will stay broken, since replacing the library did not necessarily replace broken functions -- the new library has them too, for backwards compatibility. So the upgrade is not an upgrade. This is a feature? ron